Hello, thanks for talking to us. Could you start by introducing yourself? Who are you and how are you active?

Thank you for this chance to elaborate on the situation in Sudan. I am Shadia Abdel-Moneim, the political secretary of the communist party branch in Germany, a human rights defender, especially vulnerable groups. I am one of the founders of a number of associations and initiatives [established] as resistance bodies to the Bashir regime throughout the 30 years of the bloody dictatorial Islamic regime in Sudan. I worked closely with a number of women’s and youth groups in conflict areas for peace and justice.

Today, after the revolution, I am struggling with groups of Sudanese activists inside Sudan and in diaspora in order to achieve the slogans of the revolution and establish a better reality for Sudanese people.

Briefly, what is happening in Sudan at the moment?

The security committee of the Bashir régime, which shares the transitional government with civilians, led by its chairman Abdel Fattah al-Burhan, carried out a military coup on October 25, 2021. This was part of a series of military coups which began with the palace coup of April 11, 2019. The goal is the same – to prevent the mass movement from achieving the goals and slogans of the glorious December Revolution.

Who is Abdel Fattah al-Burhan and should we fear him?

Burhan studied in a Sudanese army college, then later in Jordan and at the Egyptian military academy in Cairo, where fellow alumni included Egyptian president Abdel Fattah el-Sisi. Burhan and Sisi are longstanding friends, though the Sudanese general has lifelong affiliations with the kinds of Islamist movements that Sisi has outlawed.

He was absolutely instrumental to the devastation caused in Darfur, he fought in the region and was a military intelligence colonel coordinating army and militia attacks against civilians in West Darfur state from 2003 to 2005.

Burhan’s time in Darfur is significant also because it brought him into contact with the warlord Mohamed Hamdan Dagolo, widely known as Hemeti. Hemeti became leader of the Janjaweed, the Arab militias that brought death and despair to Darfur, and which have since morphed into the Rapid Support Forces (RSF), with Hemeti still at the helm.

These various sources of power and wealth have come under threat from Sudan’s civilian-led government and it is thought that this is partly why Burhan and Hemeti have moved when they have. Both he and Hemeti are said to be mindful of being held accountable for past actions in Darfur, and Burhan had been lobbying to dissolve the civilian-led council of ministers.

This is Burhan and Hemeti’s coup, but the relationship between the two men is difficult because, among other things, Hemeti projects himself as a leader abroad, and is closer to Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and Abu Dhabi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Zayed. Burhan is considered to be Egypt’s man. Hemeti is a more charismatic, more cartoonish figure than the quietly spoken, methodical Burhan, and the RSF leader is more closely associated with the atrocities surrounding the transition to democracy – most notably, the massacre of more than 128 people in Khartoum in June 2019 – than the armed forces general.

Two years ago, mass demonstrations removed former President Bashir. Are those forces still active, and how are they reacting to the coup?

Protests and resistance against the Bashir regime began in Sudan from the first day of his rule, and the regime met it with brutal repression. Trade unions and professional and factional unions were dismantled. The regime also worked to weaken and divide political parties.

In 2008, journalists began to form the Journalists’ Network. After that, the Doctors Committee and the Democratic Lawyers Alliance were formed, and the features of this alternative gathering of the unions seized by Al-Bashir’s authority began to become clear. At the initiative of the Journalists’ Network, a grouping of these three bodies was formed, and the Teachers’ Committee joined it until the assembly became composed of 17 unofficial union bodies.

These bodies demanded rejecting partnership with the military, rejecting the flawed constitutional document, rejecting the incomplete Juba peace and adhering to a transitional period led by civilians. Thus, we can say that the masses that overthrew Bashir are able to thwart the coup and adhere to the goals of the revolution, and are now more organized to do so.

What is the role of women in your revolution?

It is well known that Al-Bashir’s was a hardline Islamic regime, that worked in coordination with international Islamist groups, which pursued an approach hostile to women’s liberation.

Since its early days in Sudan, Al-Bashir’s regime began to restrict women and imposed on them the so-called Islamic dress, which is a headscarf and a black abaya. Women resisted in all their factions, except for those belonging to the ruling organization. The regime retreated under the weight of women’s resistance and was satisfied with the veil, and women’s resistance continued.

In the early nineties, the regime enacted what is known as the Public Order Law, which blatantly targeted women. It also enacted articles in the criminal law that criminalize women. Through its arsenal of laws and restrictions imposed on women, the regime has been confiscating the gains that women gained through hard struggle since the fifties of the last century.

In response to all these attacks on women’s gains, women organized to create resistance bodies from pressure groups and associations under different names, but all of them came together to resist the regime and its degrading laws against women.

I can say that women determined their position early on from the regime, and the unity of purpose helped them in this, and the resistance of women continued until the revolution, and they were among the most important factions that led the revolution, and this was because they were organized and ready to topple the regime more than others

What is the state of the organised Left? What parties are there and how are they relating to the movement?

The largest left-wing parties in terms of organization, number and political position is the Sudanese Communist Party. Other leftist trends include Baathist and Nasserist parties influenced by the Arab National socialism.

With the exception of the Communist Party and the Sudanese Socialist Democratic Party, all of these parties supported the neoliberal Hamdok government and now stand against the will of the people to break up the partnership with the military and proceed with building a civil and democratic state.

What have you learned from uprising in neighbouring countries like Egypt?

Despite the geographical location of Sudan, the nature of Sudanese political and personal life itself is different, and therefore the experience of the revolution in Sudan is different. Since political independence, the Sudanese have struggled for freedom and democracy and carried out two revolutions, October 1969 and April 1985. The two revolutions were aborted with regional and international interventions.

In both revolutions, there was a political leadership that, despite its weakness, was present and in one way or another related to the masses. This was not the case in the Egyptian revolution, where the leadership of the revolution was activists. In Sudan in recent years, voices have risen asking the masses to isolate and bypass parties, and these voices are trying to implement the Egyptian model in Sudan.

In my estimation, the most important lesson that we have to learn from the revolutions of the Arab Spring, and specifically the Egyptian revolution, is to keep the army away from practicing politics, prevent the army from sharing power and prevent their control of any economic investments. We should be strengthening the political leadership represented in political parties, trade unions, and resistance committees.

Do you think that the US and German governments can play a positive role in your liberation?

Of course, it is clear that international and regional foreign interventions in Sudanese affairs have had a very negative impact on political stability in Sudan since political independence in the fifties. In my personal assessment, Germany is trying to understand the nature of Sudanese society, political and social, and this is a correct start. Germany and the United States of America can help the Sudanese to build a state of freedom, peace and justice, the civil and democratic state for which they gave thousands of martyrs.

This can be done first: by hearing the voice of the masses represented by its living forces from resistance committees, political parties, factional and demanding forces.

Second: Stop supporting the militias, as the European Union, led by Germany, used to do, when they supported the Janjaweed militias led by Hemeti in what is known as the Khartoum process to stop illegal immigration and extend the borders. In return, they have to help the Sudanese in disarmament, demobilization and reintegration of these various militias in accordance with international principles, and help in building a single national army that performs its globally recognized mission of protecting the homeland and guarding the constitution.

Third: restricting the hand of the regional axes from interfering in the internal affairs of the Sudanese state and respecting the right of the Sudanese to formulate the future of their state and national sovereignty by applying pressure on them instead of pressure on the Sudanese to accept fragile and harmful settlements for the future of the revolution and the state

Fourth: Not to pressure the Sudanese, represented by the political parties and the civilian component, to accept partnership with the military, to return to the constitutional document rejected by the masses, or to abide by the Juba Peace Agreement. It did not address the roots of the peace crisis and did not accommodate all conflicted parties, such as those displaced by the war and the factions of Abdul Wahed Muhammad Nour and Al Helou.

They can assist the Sudanese in dismantling the institutions of the former regime by freezing the assets of its symbols abroad, pressure to hand over wanted persons to the criminal court, and technical assistance in handing over companies and funds in the possession of the military to be under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Finance.

Technical assistance in building the institutions of democratic transition, such as the establishment of the Constitutional Court, the reform of the judiciary, the establishment of the constitutional conference, the establishment of the Electoral Commission, the enactment of the election law, and the restructuring of the Ministry of Statistics in preparation for the population census.

In my estimation, this is the role that helps in the stability of Sudan. Other than that, if settlements are imposed, protests and political turmoil in Sudan will continue.

What happens next?

The coup is isolated internally and externally. Also knows that the international community, the African Union and the axes do not dare to support the coup in light of the unequivocal popular rejection.

There are compromises and mediation efforts taking place now, but it is also very clear that no one is negotiating with the masses and no one is negotiating in the name of the masses. Which means that any solution will not work if it does not take into account the demands of the masses that raised them in their slogans.

The December 2019 revolution was the result of the accumulation of a continuous struggle over the years. The peaceful resistance will continue using the same tools from peaceful protests to civil disobedience and political strikes, until the Sudanese reach the slogans of the revolution: “freedom, peace and justice, civility, the people’s choice”.

No matter how many obstacles are placed in front of them and no matter how long it takes, I know exactly how strong the Sudanese are and the strength of their patience whenever they have a clear, agreed goal.

How can people in Berlin support your movement?

I am absolutely certain that international solidarity and belief in the right of peoples to freedom, peace, justice and a decent life will help a lot in changing the balance of power and help public opinion to put pressure on their governments in choosing to align themselves with the will of the people.

People in Berlin can:

1. Organise solidarity activities with the Sudanese people.
2. Lead a global campaign to put pressure on Abdel Fattah al-Burhan to restore the internet and communications.
3. Organize a large campaign to stop the killing and arrest of protesters.
4. Put pressure to hand over wanted persons to the International Court
5. Call on the international community to declare the Janjaweed a terrorist organization.

Hi Taleb, could you start by introducing yourself. Who are you and how are you active politically?  

My name is Taleb Alisalem. I was born in the Sahrawi refugee camps and then I moved to Spain, where I had the opportunity to study and work and make a “normal life”. But obviously as Sahrawis we never can have a “normal life” because half of my family continues to live in refugee camps, and the other half lives in the areas of Western Sahara that Morocco occupies illegally. My town is still divided by a 2700km wall with more than 10 million mines along it. So we can never have a normal life as this conflict crosses over and completely modifies our lives.  

So that is why I dedicate all my time and effort to fighting to change this sad reality that my people suffer, to helping the voice of my people reach the world and above all, to making it possible for my people to finally return home in a free Western Sahara.  

Saturday, 6^th November sees the 46^th anniversary of the Green March. What was the Green March and why is it important?  

Western Sahara was a Spanish colony for almost two centuries, in 1975 Spain decided to leave Western Sahara without finishing the decolonization process. What Spain did is sell the territory to Morocco and Mauritania, this happened after signing an agreement in Madrid in November 1975. After that agreement, Morocco began its occupation of Western Sahara through what it called the “green march.”  

We Sahrawis call it the “black march” since it led to the beginning of the occupation of our land and the bombing of our people that resulted in the exile of thousands of Sahrawis to Algeria, and in the death of thousands more.  

Many African countries liberated themselves from colonialism in the decades following the Second World War. Yet Western Sahara remains a colony. What happened and why?  

That is a very good question, the fourth commission of the United Nations, which is in charge of the decolonization process of all countries in Africa, to this day, continues to consider Western Sahara as the last colony in Africa pending decolonization. Why?

Western Sahara was a Spanish colony for almost two centuries. Spain decided not to comply with the decolonization process and hand over sovereignty to the Sahrawi people, preferring to do “business” with Morocco and Mauritania and hand over the territory to them in exchange for trade agreements.

Obviously that was completely illegal, which is why, until today, legally Spain continues to be the administering power of Western Sahara. But no Spanish government has wanted to take responsibility and initiate that pending decolonization process. The relations between Morocco, which physically occupies Western Sahara, and Spain, which legally occupies it, are very good relations that do not contemplate respecting the right of the Sahrawi people to exist freely on their legitimate land.  

The United Nations have been present in Western Sahara for the past 30 years. What has been their role?  

When Spain left Western Sahara in 1975 and handed it over to Morocco, which began to occupy the territory militarily, the Sahrawi people began armed resistance, through their liberation movement, the Polisario Front. This movement went to war with Morocco to try to expel it from the Sahrawi territories that it illegally occupied. The war began in 1975 and lasted 16 years until, in 1991, the UN presented a peace plan that both parts, Polisario Front and Morocco, accepted.  

This plan consisted of stopping the war, with a commitment to carry out a referendum on the population of Western Sahara, where they could choose to be part of Morocco or be an independent state. The UN promised that this referendum would take place within a period of nine months.  

30 years passed and that referendum was never held. Morocco blocked all attempts by the UN mission (MINURSO) in charge of carrying out this referendum, and the UN did not want to impose any position on Morocco either. And so, 30 years passed where the Sahrawi people only waited in refugee camps, or were living in the occupied part of Western Sahara suffering all kinds of human rights violations by Moroccan occupation forces. Sahrawi people experienced 30 very hard years of a wait that never ends.

There had been a ceasefire in the area until around a year ago, but this has now been broken. What happened, and how has that affected the general life of people in Western Sahara?  

After 30 years waiting for a referendum that never came. 30 years where the Sahrawi people peacefully asked for a solution. 30 years where Morocco continued to exploit the natural resources of Western Sahara generating millionaire profits, and silencing with torture and jail the Sahrawis who dared to oppose the Moroccan occupation. 30 years where the other half of the Sahrawi people lived in refugee camps in one of the harshest deserts in the world. 30 years being separated  by a 2700 km wall built by Morocco. 30 years of silence from the UN, the international community and the European Union. The Sahrawis were already tired.

A group of Sahrawi people decided to travel to the extreme south of Western Sahara and hold a peaceful protest in an area called Guerguerat. This area was heavily trafficked by trucks that the Moroccan occupation used to transfer all the resources that they stole from Western Sahara. The group of Sahrawi protesters closed that truck crossing. Because of this, the Moroccan army left the wall on November 13, 2020 and fired weapons at civilian protesters.  

The Polisario Front considered this attack a breach of the peace agreement signed in 1991, and announced that we, the Sahrawis, are returning to armed struggle against Morocco.  

The Sahrawi people are a peaceful people, but that day we all celebrated that decision, because after 30 years of suffering endless waiting, finally, maybe the war could make the world, the UN and the international community listen to us.

How are West Sahrawis resisting occupation and how successful are they?  

Since Morocco occupied Western Sahara in 1975, it implemented a harsh colonial policy with the aim of completely erasing the Sahrawi identity. Morocco prohibited wearing typical Sahrawi clothes, speaking in the Sahrawi dialect, prohibited several Sahrawi houses living in the same street. It filled Western Sahara with Moroccan settlers, to whom the Moroccan government offered houses and work to travel from Morocco and move to Western Sahara. Also, the Moroccan occupation employed a tough policy in education where children were taught that the Sahara was always part of Morocco.  

All these strategies failed because there was always a great feeling of identity and revolution in the Sahrawi people, there were always protests against the Moroccan occupation, Sahrawi flags were always raised. The occupation forces practiced murder, torture, jail, even disappearances against any Sahrawi who publicly protested against the Moroccan occupation. There are thousands of registered cases of torture and murder. Organizations such as Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the UN have denounced these events.  

Despite all this, to this day, the Sahrawi population who live in the occupied areas of Western Sahara continue to peacefully resist the Moroccan occupation. The most recent case is the case of the Sahrawi activist Sultana Khaya, she has been under house arrest for a year. At her home in Western Sahara, the Moroccan occupation forces surround her home, have tortured her to the point of losing an eye, have raped her and her sister, cut off their electricity and they are unable to leave the home where they are arrested. Despite this, Sultana and her sister go up to the roof of the house every day to raise the Sahrawi flags and shout slogans against the Moroccan occupation. You just have to look on the internet; this is happening today. The case of Sultana Khaya is just one example of hundreds of other cases of Sahrawis in the occupied territories of Western Sahara.  

How strong are Left-wing parties in Western Sahara? How are they active in the resistance?  

In Western Sahara we do not have parties yet, remember that our land still suffers from colonization. We only have a single liberation movement that unifies and represents all of our people. The Polisario Front is the armed movement that represents our people and fights for our rights politically and militarily.  

Once we have control of all our occupied territories, and the decolonization process is completed, resulting in the Independence of Western Sahara; that is when the liberation movement will dissolve to form different political parties.  

What is the German and European involvement in the occupation?  

The European Union is directly responsible for the occupation and suffering of our people. The European Union is responsible for two reasons:  

1- According to the United Nations, legally Spain continues to be the colonizing power of Western Sahara. Therefore, it is Spain who must promote the decolonization process so that Morocco leaves Western Sahara and the Sahrawi people can have the sovereignty and independence that corresponds to them on their legitimate land. Spain is a member country of the European Union, and if Spain does not want to assume that historical and legal responsibility, the European Union should press for Spain to comply.  

2- The European Union has trade agreements with Morocco that include Western Sahara, that means that there are European companies that are dedicated to exploiting the natural resources of Western Sahara, this generates very important economic gains for Morocco, providing an incentive  to continue perpetuating its illegal occupation.  

Former German ex President, Mr. Horst Köhler, was the UN Secretary General’s envoy for Western Sahara. Köhler spent many years trying to find a solution to this conflict but Morocco blocked all his attempts to reach an agreement, finally in 2018 he ended up resigning.  

Germany’s position has always been neutral, but as Sahrawis we do not ask for or expect neutrality, rather we need a clear position and support for our people and our just cause.  

One of the main German companies involved in the occupation is Heidelberg Cement, who are also involved in land grabbing in Palestine. You can also draw comparisons with the wall being built by Morocco on the West Saharan border and the one separating the West Bank from Israel. To what extent is your campaign united with other campaigns against imperialism and occupation?  

So far we know that there are more than 80 international companies exploiting the natural resources of the Sahrawi people, being direct accomplices with the Moroccan regime in its illegal occupation of Western Sahara.  

Most of these companies are European; some are from Germany. No European government has denounced these events, even knowing that the high European court has ruled on three occasions that the agreements of the European Union with Morocco should not be extended to Western Sahara since this territory is not part of Morocco.  

About the wall? After its occupation of 80% of the territory of Western Sahara, Morocco built the largest wall in the world after the Chinese wall, this wall completely seals the part that Morocco occupied. It is 2,700 km long and has more than 10 million antipersonnel mines along the entire wall. This wall completely divided the Sahrawi people, half live in refugee camps, the other half, on the other side of the wall in the occupied part. These families have not been able to meet for more than 40 years. I always say that “not all the walls have fallen with the Berlin Wall”. Unfortunately in my country, the wall still exists to this day.  

What are your immediate demands on the Moroccan government and on international politicians?  

Our demands are the same as always. We ask Morocco to abandon our land that they occupy illegally, we ask Morocco to stop exploiting our natural resources, to stop raping and murdering our people, we ask Morocco to destroy the wall it built to separate our people, and to recognize that was a mistake to occupy Western Sahara. We ask Morocco to give us our sovereignty so that the Sahrawi people can be free and have an independent state on our legitimate land.  

To the international community, our demand is to not be complicit in perpetuating the occupation and mistreatment of our people. We ask them to stop looking the other way, and to support the end of occupation and colonialism in Western Sahara.  

We tell the international community, that the war that is being experienced in Western Sahara right now will be a massacre if they do not act quickly to find a solution that brings peace to the region.  

Finally, what can people in Germany and elsewhere do to support your campaign?  

There are many ways to help, first of all our fight is against the information blockade. People can investigate, they can learn more about the Sahrawi conflict, they also can visit the refugee camps or denounce these events in their social circles. I invite all people who are interested in helping to participate in the events that are organized in support of the cause of the Sahrawi people.  

For example, this Thursday, November 4, there will be a talk about Western Sahara in Berlin, also on Saturday, November 6, we will hold a demonstration in front of the German Parliament to demand the rights of the Sharawi people. I invite everyone who wants to participate in all these events, I invite you to get closer to this cause and defend it because just causes belong to everyone.