An interview with James McGovern of ‘The Murder Capital’.
Their show at Gretchen in Berlin was canceled because they refused to take down their Palestine flag.
Question: You were set to play in Berlin right? What happened?
Answer: We pulled into the Berlin venue, sometime in the early afternoon. We saw in the tech specs that it said “no flags”. So we had a discussion in the band about how to approach that.
And, you know, we just said we wanted to approach it basically, obviously calmly. Whatever conversation came up, we didn’t expect much to come of it, to be honest. We didn’t think that – like the Palestinian flag with the current state of affairs – it would be an issue to have a small flag on the stage. I was not like a big flag or anything like that. So, we just discussed this and then at 2:00 pm, did a soundcheck. That was fine.
Then before 5 p.m., the venue brought it up. At which point our tour manager relayed to the show that our position was – the flag has been on our stage in every single show we’ve played this year on this tour. And the conversations went back and forth for a while and were sort of moralistic and things like that. And we just sort of knew where we stood. We asked like – sort of I suppose hypothetically – not that I wanted to move the flag, but I wanted to know if we could replace it with a ‘Free Palestine’ banner. The show rep was told no, by the venue owners. So it felt like it was going beyond national flags at that point. So the venue canceled the show and wouldn’t let us play with the flag there. And at that point, the venue owner went out and spoke to the crowds. I don’t think they treated us very well. And then they went to speak to the fans and so did we.
Q: And what was their official reasoning?
A: It was this “no national flags” thing. There’s a part of me that can empathize with where they’re coming from on some level. But not on every level of the issue. Like they struck me as people who do care about what’s going on in the world.
And you know they sort of stress that they put on events for Palestinian people and Israeli people and different things and, you know, they’re sort of trying to create an environment that looks after everyone. But I think there I disagree with them on some level – that like, no flags should be allowed in. And people have pulled up internet images of national flags being in their concerts before. It’s obviously just like flags that are contentious that they’re trying to avoid.
So they express it like “no Irish flag”, “no German flags”. Like there’s no reason why we need to fly the Irish flag or the German flag in there. They’re trying to create this kind of idealistic space or whatever that’s void of all this stuff. But while they’re doing that, I think they’re creating more tension in my opinion. Like saying that the Palestinian people are happy to come in without their flag, it just feels like another little bit of censorship going on. There’s obviously an over-correction, in Germany, to protect Jewish people at all costs and that’s because of World War Two and, it still doesn’t make it right, though. So there’s a willingness to sort of protect Israel at all costs in Germany in some circles.
Q: And you were set to play in Cologne right? And so what happened there?
A: So we pulled up in the tour bus. We couldn’t even get in to use the toilet or have a shower or anything. And then they didn’t even let the fans know. So obviously not everyone’s looking at band social media all day or whatever. And so a few hundred fans turned up to the doors at 7 p.m. and we explained to them what was going on. So we put on another acoustic show that evening in a park nearby and it was great. And our fans are great and we spoke with them for a while. A lot of them were repeating the same message. That is “We feel so ashamed, so ashamed of Germany, so ashamed of this reaction”. It’s just kind of this, this, this shame and guilt going around and around again, another generation or generation, you know, and it’s just sad.
Q: Why is it important to you to have this flag up?
A: In light of what’s happening, and also as an Irish band I think having the flag there is obviously more than just a flag at this point – because Israel is trying to eradicate those people from the earth.
And the Palestinians are still not getting aid. And having the flag on the stage is one of the ways in which we can keep the conversation at the forefront. And that’s the sort of platform that we have. And it’s a very human reaction to an atrocity.
So for us, the flag being there is a very small cry of help amidst a sea of millions of cries of help for these people. And we say a few words before one of the songs every night and, and that’s it.
The show isn’t centered around this or whatever. I don’t think it’s a radical move in any way. It just feels like a very human, human reaction to the situation.
Q: How has your fans’ response been to this whole situation?
A: There has been an inundation of support, and just recognition of, that being the right sort of thing to do in the situation. We didn’t want to disappoint fans or anything like that, but I think fans of the band and real fans who know us, know that we’re not just going to talk when it comes to stuff. I’m sure there’s plenty of madness in those comment sections of Instagram though. I’m not going to read them.
Have you gotten any negative reactions?
You know, there’ll always be a few people saying things like, you don’t give a shit about your fans or you don’t “blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. . .” None of them understand or know us in any way, and we care deeply about our fans and respect them. And, you know, more than anything, what we want to do is play fucking rock and roll and get out there and get on the stage and like, that’s what we do, you know?
Q: Are you worried that this is going to happen more in the future? Has this happened anywhere else other than Germany?
A: No. There’s never been even a whisper of this anywhere else other than in Germany. And we also played in Munich the night before Berlin with no problem. We were quietly wondering what would happen when we got to Germany.
There’s this kind of growing censorship of pro-Palestinian, bands, voices, everything. A lot of Irish bands and groups and people are very openly pro-Palestine, and have a shared history there. As a nation who was colonized and oppressed we sort of think it’s a natural sort of thing to empathize with anyone else who’s being oppressed or colonized us. The ‘Black and Tans’ militias that were in Ireland, you know, pushing people out of their homes, shooting people in stadiums, treating Irish people like dogs, basically like subhuman. It’s like the Black and Tans were sent straight to Palestine from Ireland.
So those connections are very. . . there’s a parallel history there. If you treat people as subhuman for long enough – they start to act like it, you know. And that’s arguably what happened at times in Ireland as well, with the IRA, with the sort of atrocities there.
It’s hard to imagine 3 million people dying on such a small island. And it’s not that long ago, you know, so there’s just a very short history there. I know people who – like friends of mine who’ve been – like, vocal in supporting this cause for well over a decade. And in my memory. I’m still young. So, it’s been a talking point in Ireland for a long time. So I think it’s obviously all just coming to a head now, becoming a global story. But Irish people have been supporting the Palestinian people for a long time for this, October 7th situation.
Q: If other venues say take the Palestine flag down, are you going to remove it?
A: What I’ve said since then on stage is true. That flag will remain on stage until the people of Palestine are free.
